How Psychedelics Help You Let Go And Heal Trauma
Episode 21 with Redesigning The Dharma by Sahaja Soma features a conversation with Zahra Adloo, a Los Angeles-based mental health professional and psychedelic integrator who specializes in integrating Eastern philosophy with Western psychology. Zahra shares her unique approach to therapy, incorporating Reiki, trauma-informed yoga, and somatic practices to help individuals reconnect with their core identities and overcome challenges such as trauma, addiction, and anxiety.
The discussion delves deeply into Zahra's personal experience with psychedelics, particularly Ayahuasca and Ibogaine, and how these experiences facilitated her healing journey and informed her professional practice. The conversation also touches on themes like non-attachment, surrender, the importance of self-awareness, and maintaining a healthy balance between productivity and personal well-being. Additionally, Zahra shares her interest in biohacking and longevity as part of a holistic approach to mental health and personal growth.
Episode Highlights:
00:00 Introduction to Zahra Adloo
01:56 Zahra's Psychedelic Journey
13:17 The Transformative Power of Stillness
27:04 Integrating Psychedelic Experiences
34:08 Releasing The Ego & Discerning True Purpose
40:04 Karmic Visions and Ayahuasca
52:45 Embodying Healing As A Psychedelic Facilitator
1:03:04 Biohacking and Plant Medicine For Longevity
Guest Bio:
Zahra Adloo is a dedicated mental health professional and wellness host based in Los Angeles, specializing in helping individuals find meaning and purpose by uncovering their authentic selves. Through her unique, integrative approach, Zahra assists clients in navigating personal challenges and reconnecting with their core identities, fostering clarity, direction, hope, and healing.
Her clinical work blends Eastern philosophy with Western psychology, incorporating Reiki, energy healing, trauma-informed yoga, and somatic practices. Zahra’s therapeutic focus on self-compassion and empowerment has transformed the lives of those struggling with trauma, addiction, anxiety, depression, OCD, and body image issues.
Zahra is also an expert in psychedelic integration, particularly in the use of Ibogaine for addiction recovery. As a Certified Psilocybin-Assisted Therapist through Fluence, she offers compassionate, informed care through every stage of the psychedelic healing process.
Beyond private practice, Zahra curates transformational wellness events across Los Angeles, where she creates safe and inspiring spaces for individuals to connect deeply with themselves and each other. Her events are rooted in themes like building community, reclaiming authenticity, nervous system healing, and integrating spiritual and mental well-being.
Trained at Palo Alto University in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and Marriage and Family Therapy, Zahra also draws personal inspiration from yoga, hiking, creative writing, travel, and her work as a podcast host and speaker. Her passion for cross-cultural connection and holistic transformation makes her an invaluable guide for those seeking soul-aligned mental health and growth.
Full Transcript:
Adrian: Welcome to Redesigning the Dharma. I'm your host Adrian Baker.
And today I'm speaking with Zahra Adloo. Zahra is a dedicated mental health professional and wellness host based in Los Angeles, specializing in helping individuals find meaning and purpose by uncovering their authentic selves.
Through her unique integrative approach, Zahra assists clients in navigating personal challenges and reconnecting with their core identities: fostering clarity, direction, hope, and healing.
Her clinical work blends Eastern philosophy with Western psychology, incorporating Reiki, energy healing, trauma informed yoga and somatic practices. Zahra's therapeutic focus on self-compassion and empowerment has transformed the lives of those struggling with trauma, addiction, anxiety, depression, OCD, and body image issues.
Zahra is also an expert in psychedelic [00:01:00] integration, particularly in the use of Ibogaine for addiction recovery. As a certified psilocybin therapist through Fluence, she offers compassionate informed care through every stage of the psychedelic healing process.
Beyond private practice, Zahra curates transformational wellness events across Los Angeles where she creates safe and inspiring spaces for individuals to connect deeply with themselves and each other.
Her events are rooted in themes like building community, reclaiming authenticity, nervous system healing, and integrating spiritual and mental wellbeing.
Trained at Palo Alto University in clinical mental health counseling and marriage and family therapy, Zahra also draws personal inspiration from yoga, hiking, creative writing, travel, and her work as a podcast host and speaker.
Her passion for cross-cultural connection and holistic transformation makes her an invaluable guide for those seeking soul aligned mental health and growth. Please enjoy my conversation with Zahra Adloo.
Zahra: When you're traumatized and I was parentified and [00:02:00] I had the performer side of me come out and it was very active. That part of me was very active, so I always had to have things aligned. I always had to plan. If things didn't go as planned, then I would freak out, have anxiety attacks, and I really didn't get to see how beautiful life was when I worked from a parasympathetic nervous system.
I had to surrender and Ayahuasca showed me that because it was so hard for me to not feel completely oriented in my body.
That was a surrender. I guess that was like my, the grounding place that I needed to experience to be able to understand what that could feel if I embodied it That experience was, I had no control. I had to let go. I had this substance in me, or this plant medicine, and me telling me like, look, you're gonna have these visuals. You're not gonna be able to walk right now. You're gonna throw up, you are gonna feel like you're gonna [00:03:00] die, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's in your body now.
There's, you gotta just go with it. And that is really like the baseline that I've been able to utilize for my life. Just go with it. Surrender. There's nothing you can do. There's something like greater than you that's orchestrating it all and you just have to let go.
And once I let go and I started to see the magic and how everything was just perfectly placed in my life for me, I then became addicted to that.
Not even addicted, but like more intrigued wow, what's next? I wonder like what's gonna happen. But we'll see when it happens 'cause I'm just gonna be present right now.
Adrian: Yeah. I like that. Thinking about it as intrigue, because when we shift to approaching things with curiosity and there can be experience of like playfulness as well,
Zahra: Absolutely.
Adrian: can vibe into that. That really shifts our experience. I notice whenever [00:04:00] I'm feeling like locked in around something, whether there's aversion, I don't like it, or attachment, I really want this, that's when I can feel cut off,
Zahra: Oh God,
Adrian: and things start to feel very solid.
Zahra: that's such a good point. The non-attachment piece.
Adrian: yeah, and it's, it comes with it's not trying to be just transcendent or aloof from it, but it's not reifying it, it's not making it feel solid.
Actually what's going on, like in the body mind, there's some discomfort or desire, whatever it is, it's actually, if we attune to it it's fluid, it's dynamic. But when we feel it solid, that's when we get locked into that subject, object
Zahra: Oh, I love how you put that. It's fluid and that's what life is perfectly orchestrated for you. So yes, you can have desires, right? But also let go and let those things happen for you. And I'll give you an example. I, there's a ton of goals that I've had in my life and [00:05:00] I would fixate on them for a while.
But then I noticed some of those things would happen, some of them won't. And the ones that did happen just were perfectly planned. I met the right people at the right time. Everything came with ease. So when there is no ease in that process, I know that I just have to let go.
And I like the thing I tell myself is, something better is out there for you.
You just don't have the conscious awareness of it yet. So let's just see what unfolds and it works. It really is. It's, like I said, it's magical. It's magical when you let go and like move through life with ease. Without the rigidity, without it being solid, like you said. I love that.
Adrian: So what do you say to either your, former self or other type A people that you coach or friends that you have when they're like how can I not plan? Like, I just noticed that immediate fear, especially in this culture. Well, if I don't plan, then I'm not gonna have goals. [00:06:00] I'm not gonna achieve. I'm not gonna, there's a lot of stuff around achievement, ambition, not being productive.
Zahra: What's the rush? Is it at the expense of your health?
Adrian: Hmm.
Zahra: I definitely don't want that. I have been so in tune with my nervous system, so in tune, and I'm a therapist. I have to be that way. I set limits on how many clients I see every day. I always check in with my health because, there's that saying, they say It's good to have many problems, but it's bad to have one. And that one problem being your health, not being at its best or optimal version.
And so I'm always thinking, oh, it's great. I have all these problems because I'm in good health. And how do you stay in good health?
You take care of what your body needs and what your body's telling you it needs. So aside from you being productive, think about yourself as a human and not a robot.
Don't get sucked into this system that's telling you you have to keep doing and [00:07:00] doing 'cause that's gonna cause you to get sick and then you won't be able to do anything at all.
If you don't see the bigger picture that will deteriorate your self-confidence, your self-esteem. But it's all because you weren't in tune with your body. It's all because you didn't listen to what your body needed.
And I think that to combat productivity, we have to be able to be self-aware.
Self-aware that there is no rush. That what's meant for you will happen and what's not meant for you won't. And you have to just let go and surrender to that.
Adrian: Yeah, you just said it right there with the surrender. That in addition to the self-awareness, there's a trust element.
And I think the trust is very hard for that personality type and we all experience to different degrees.
But underneath the desire for planning and order, there's a desire to control things.
Zahra: So here is a good point. A lot of people who are in survival mode or who didn't come from affluent backgrounds, they will have that performer side come up for them often. And [00:08:00] then they end up becoming stable, building a life for themselves, and that performer self is still in overdrive. But what that's not doing is allowing the authentic self to shine outside of being in that survival mode.
And so I think it's good to be able to differentiate and be able to give compassion to the authentic self that wants to show up once your basic needs are met. So what is the point of being productive if you aren't authentic to what you really want? What are you really chasing here? Are you in survival mode?
If you're not, then how can you shift to becoming more self-actualized? How can you focus on other things in your life? How can you focus on what you need within? Is it okay to just tell that performer self. It doesn't need to show up all the time and allow other dormant parts of you to shine?
There are so many parts to us that exist, and people who are in productive mode all the time don't get to see those parts. So it's like a self betrayal at that point.
Adrian: What do you say to someone who says, 'cause I'm sure [00:09:00] some people will say this, and I can imagine a couple of good friends who say this, and then they mean it really genuinely as like, well, what if just naturally what I want to do is work? And for some people think what you're inviting us to do and I feel this is part of the value of as well as psychedelics meditation, it's just like pausing to really listen in body and mind-- what's underneath it.
So it can be like wanting to achieve a certain thing so that we're perceived a certain way, like those extrinsic markers of success. And there's a real hollowness to that.
And a lot of positive psychology research confirms that. That what makes us happy is intrinsic versus extrinsic.
But what do you do to people who are like, know, genuinely and I do have some friends like this who are very successful and they're very workaholic, and just think it's, they love to work.
It feels like the most natural expression of who they are. What do you say to someone like that?[00:10:00]
Zahra: Take a pause. Take a pause. I I was like that and I took a two year sabbatical and I'm not telling people to take two year sabbaticals, but when I was just speaking about the different parts of me that were dormant, I'm speaking from experience because there's so much that showing up now that I never had access to in the past.
I had no idea that this part of me existed. Me being on this podcast was something I would've never imagined when I was in work mode. There is a really good book and a process called The Artist's Way. It's about creativity.
So how do you continue to create if you're always in work mode and you're constantly doing the same thing over and over again, and it's great that you enjoy it, but where is there room for you to create more?
You have to open space in your mind. And so always says wake up in the morning and do your morning pages. And morning pages are about just writing, like it's a stream of consciousness journaling. So you just write out [00:11:00] whatever's on your mind. You don't have to worry about reading it again. You don't have to worry about what it says.
It doesn't have to be cohesive, what that's doing is it's opening space in your mind. So for people who can't take a two year sabbatical to find other parts of themselves that are dormant, that can actually help their work. In other ways that they don't even know yet. That's untapped.
You can do this Artist's Way approach where you wake up, you do a stream of consciousness journaling, and you open up the space in your mind so that you become this creator because you are connected to your creator. You become this creative person. So within the work that you're doing, you have so much more potential if you tap into creator energy. So you can love your work, but then you can love it even more because now you're getting insights and downloads that can amplify your work.
But in order to do that, you need to take a pause. You need to take a break. You need to be able to silence the mind. That's a whole practice.
And I mean, Buddhism does [00:12:00] that, right? Like mindfulness, the meditations like you have to pause in order for new things to come in and if you love your work, amplify it and maybe create in a way where you are still doing your work, but with less time, so then you get time to play
Adrian: Yeah. Yeah. That's the key part
Zahra: like you're more innovative in your work.
Adrian: That's just what I was gonna say, how innovation is very tied to play.
And sometimes a lot of the language around productivity work it's focus on like getting things done,
Zahra: It's, it feels solid like we talked about.
Adrian: It does.
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: some things in life in work, like they are the mundane, boring things where they, sometimes you have to buckle down and,
Zahra: Mm-hmm.
Adrian: Done.
But if you get too in that zone and the play gets squeezed out, the creativity dies. And that's where a lot of the innovation
comes from. And a Zen teacher that I worked with had a great way to talk about. She said, just paying attention to the mindfulness sensations and feelings in the body and just tracking [00:13:00] aliveness. So noticing when a thought comes up or a particular plan or whatever, like what makes you feel alive and where does that kind of die out? And that, process of tracking aliveness
Zahra: Uhhuh,
Adrian: can be really
Zahra: But that happens with being still, right?
Adrian: Oh yeah. You have to be able to listen in order to hear it. Yeah.
Zahra: And I think, I mean, that's a really good point because when I took my two year sabbatical, I found a lot of moments that gave me aliveness. And then I also got to realize the fears that I had to work through for those moments where I could feel alive, could shine through. So one of them would be like public speaking or like being on a podcast.
I very much felt alive at the idea, but I had all these fears and all these self doubts, and I, a lot of criticism come in that would shut me out in the future. And I leaned into that and I said, okay, what is, what do I have to do? What kind of work do I have to do in order to succumb or surpass these fears?
So it's through aliveness or through [00:14:00] seeking aliveness and through being still that you get to really tap into, like I said, the parts of you that exist that are trying to have you overcome fears that are trying to help you feel more aligned to your purpose.
Adrian: Yeah, I think that's well said. One, thing I wanted to ask was what sparked that two year sabbatical?
Zahra: Okay, so the universe did it. That's how I, the, that's the magic, the universe. I never planned that. No.
Adrian: How did you open the magic?
Zahra: So I was going through a divorce. My partner was at the time like day trading in my name. And because of that I had to be on a certain tax bracket. And I decided to go to Puerto Rico because I wanted to save on taxes.
So for those two years, I was locked into this tax incentive program. And I had no other choice. I had to do it, otherwise I was gonna owe a ton. And this is all going through a divorce [00:15:00] process at the same time, which is another story in itself. But I was like, okay, this is where the universe is taking me.
I have to go, I have to do this. I went to Puerto Rico. I couldn't work because I quit both of my jobs and I couldn't sit for my licensing exam 'cause I submitted my hours to get licensed to the state and that took about four or five months to get their approval for. And I had to be on this island for 180 days out of the year.
So I had no choice but to just be still and figure out what I'm gonna do next and heal me. Work through all the things that got me to be in that relationship. Work through all the negative thoughts that I had, all the trauma that I hadn't addressed I really had no choice but to do it.
And that's why I say like the universe is orchestrated perfectly and is helping you build on a awareness that you didn't have by just allowing yourself to go with it. And in the very beginning, it was [00:16:00] very difficult because I was separated from my friends in LA, my family, and didn't know anybody on the island except for the person that I was letting go of so he wasn't an option.
So I was like, what am I gonna do? I'm alone here. I went on Bumble BFF, I met one person that then opened me up to a group of women that I'm still very connected to, that then opened me up to doing advocacy work on the island. That then opened me up to thinking about being an entrepreneur.
Made all the right connections. Opened me up to getting an Ibogaine treatment because I had the time to go do it which healed so much within me. And now I'm talking about it a lot because I wanna put that out there. But it was really it. I couldn't I, that's why I say life is so magical, and I surrender now because I, in retrospect, have so much appreciation for the pause.
Not working. Figuring out what it is that I wanted to do. Taking in each moment and understanding that it [00:17:00] was actually to elevate me and my consciousness.
It wasn't planned. It was just what I had to go with.
Adrian: Yeah. A lot times that's what a lot of us need to get onto some kind of spiritual or self-healing path is something forcing it on us. Some
Yeah.
Zahra: exactly. A lot of times it's like break breakups, right? Like relationships are mirrors and they help elevate you and in the moments it's painful, but if you don't feel that pain, you don't grow through it.
Adrian: Absolutely break up, losing a job, health. Yeah.
Zahra: Yeah. Hell exactly.
Those are three common
Adrian: things. Yeah.
Zahra: But I always now I see things like challenges that come up in my life as they're empowering. I look at my creator and I'm like, whoa you know that I have the potential to go through this. I don't even know that right now, but I know you wouldn't set me up for failure.
So it actually motivates me. I'm like wow, my creator knows that I can overcome this. I didn't see that in myself. I didn't see that strength. So now I see that I [00:18:00] can, and this is a challenge I'm meant to overcome and grow through. And you have to go through those challenges and a lot of people give up because they don't see that there is a potential for them to get through it.
But now I, reframe that in my mind. I'm like, I wouldn't be set up by my creator if I wasn't able to get through it.
Adrian: And so you mentioned Ibogaine there and then you mentioned Ayahuasca earlier in the conversation. I'm curious what first sparked your interest in psychedelics and, and what's the timeline
Zahra: Oh, so many years apart. So my first psychedelic was ayahuasca. I didn't try mushrooms or anything like that. This was in 2018. I actually, in 2017, I went to India to get my yoga teacher training certificate. So I wanted to be there for a month and a half to become a yogi and learn about yoga.
And when I was there, I met a lot of people from different parts of the world. They were all talking about ayahuasca. And I'm like what is this? What is this that you guys are, it was so foreign to [00:19:00] me. And as soon as I came back, I connected with this girl in New Jersey. I lived in Philadelphia at the time, who was also Persian, but she was married to a shaman.
And I was like, okay. So we had a, a great connection, her and I, and she brought up, oh yeah, my, husband, is a shaman for ayahuasca. So there that came up again. It was like I just had my yogic journey. It was spoken about so much here. Now I'm at home and it's coming up with someone I'm really close to.
So let me lean into that 'cause I'm curious. And I was really unhappy with my job. I was working in corporate. I had just earned my first master's and I was like, this can't be it. I can't do this work. So I just was really unhappy and I went in and I decided, I was like, I trust her.
I see that she is elevated. I love the way she speaks. I love how she carries herself. She seems so calm. I'm here nervous and anxious and trying to plan and rigid, and she's [00:20:00] just embodying this version of me that I wanted to see for myself. And so I was like, okay, if she's doing this, then there's something in this that's going to be able to help me.
So I went and I did my first journey and I didn't, drink my second cup. I was afraid. I just, I more so witnessed the circle. I had a one cup that gave me like a euphoric feeling. And then I was like, that feeling that it gave me was that I could do anything I wanted. That I was capable of doing anything and that was really important for me then, because I had low self-confidence, despite all the achievements, the extrinsic benefits of achieving those things, I still didn't feel good within.
And so I went and I, was like, I'm gonna go again and this time I'm gonna drink two cups and actually take myself to that level. And I did, I had a coworker come with me and we did it together in a nice, beautiful, comforting home. And that is when it hit me. And I was like, whoa, I have no [00:21:00] control here. I felt like I was gonna die. And that part of me that died was the ego, obviously and a lot of parts of me that didn't serve me.
And I was like, okay. And I was, I had a lot of support and the main message that kept coming up was, let go. And so I just always had that in the back of my mind and I continued on with life. And in 2020 discovered psilocybin. Did a couple journeys with that, and I saw how that expanded my consciousness.
But I was still not happy in my life. I still didn't know how to let go. And it wasn't until I started to develop support systems around me 'cause I was married to someone that was really toxic and I didn't see a way of me being able to get out of it, I felt stuck.
And so I created support systems. I built friendships and I just allowed myself to have more fun. And I allowed myself to live and not take things so seriously. And I guess that part of that was letting [00:22:00] go. And then I finally let go of what was no longer serving me in my day to day with the person that I was with but I still had a very strong attachment emotionally.
There were a lot of parts of my childhood wounds that were coming up that this person was filling. And I didn't want that. I didn't want someone to latch onto. I didn't want anything outside of myself to give me comfort. And then I went and I did in 2023, did my first iboga journey and that was when I was in stillness on the island of Puerto Rico. I didn't do it there, but that's, that is the moment where the messages came in.
I had dreams from individuals who had passed away from addiction. I worked in addiction treatment before that, so I wanted to not only discover ways to help my clients in the future that would actually help them that wasn't coming from like an outdated system. But I was like, I have to do this for myself first. I have to see before I, try to advocate for something, I have to see what this can do for me 'cause I know it helps with trauma. And it [00:23:00] completely shed all the fear. It helped me get in flow. It helped me surrender.
And not from a place where I was afraid and I had an out of body experience, but from a place of understanding the deep roots of my trauma from a familial family system perspective. And it's interesting 'cause I'm a marriage and family therapist, and that the work that I had done and the knowledge that I had gained through education did not resonate with me until I had my Ibogaine journey.
It was almost like the spirit molecule to my education. And it came together and helped me embody the roots and acknowledge where this trauma came from and how I needed to let go and reframe and open myself up to abundance and restructure my narrative going forward. So that is the timeline.
Started in 2018. It started with ayahuasca. So ayahuasca has its place in my [00:24:00] heart. And Ibogaine I think was more effective for me because it lasts in your body for a month. The neuro ibogaine, the chemical compounds last in your body for a month and gives you that whole month where you are more neuroplastic.
And when I was in stillness, I was able to listen to my body, develop new habits, and create a lifestyle for myself that I wanted to carry on with me. But I think if I was in my productivity mode and go, literally have my calendar filled up all the time before to the point where I would go home and I would crash because it was midnight.
That's how much I would been working throughout the day. Now I had the stillness to be able to sit and say, okay, like that didn't serve you. Here's what's gonna serve you going forward. And here's what's gonna help elevate you. So Ibogaine, stillness, ayahuasca, and the awareness of letting go.
Adrian: I love that, and I like what you said about Ayahuasca, you know, as a special place in your heart, like it was the right medicine at that time. I.
Zahra: Yeah. Wow.
Adrian: it got you onto the [00:25:00] path and then it helped you to connect with these other medicines that perhaps are, are more integral to your work now. And it makes me think like any other relationships, it could be, romantic relationships.
You know, We learn things through different relationships and ultimately hopefully meet the person, we're supposed to be with through those, the lessons of previous relationships.
I also feel that with spiritual teachers too. some teachers I might have just been with for a retreat or a few retreats, not a long period of time, but they served a very important role for that particular chapter in my development.
Zahra: Oh my God that just reminded me of my gurus, my yogic gurus, the teachers of that I went through to learn hatha yoga in Bali. There were two male gurus that taught me, and I'll never forget them because they felt like such a safe place for my nervous system. I had a lot of trauma with people in leadership roles or men in leadership roles who [00:26:00] abused their privilege of just being a leader.
And would either hit on me or make me feel uncomfortable about who I was. And here I was connected to these two males who were able to see me and not pushed the boundaries that made me feel uncomfortable. And I just I'm such gratitude because they were the ones that showed me that it, exists out there.
That there are men that feel safe. That you can be around, that you can learn from, that you can look up to, that aren't going to just hit on you and want more from you in other ways.
I'm speaking about spiritual teachers, that just came to my mind. It's so great to be able to say about someone that they've had that impression on you or they've left that impression on you. And I think that's something that I wanna embody, throughout my life and through the people that I want to come across and help, is to be able to somehow leave an impression that's positive, that's helps [00:27:00] them in ways that those gurus helped me.
Adrian: So let's talk about that a little bit. I'm curious both about, since you're a psychedelic integration coach and also just in your personal experience, I'm curious about two things. One, I'd like to hear you talk about what are some of the larger systems practices, paths your on that help you to integrate know, and embody what you're learning or what's been catalyzed through psychedelics.
And then I'd also love to hear you talk about what's the right balance for you in terms of working with it as a, practice, like taking a journey in an ongoing way. Like which medicines, what's the frequency, and what, what's that look like for you, at least in this chapter your life.
Zahra: So the way that I've been able to embody what I've learned through the medicine i s by paying attention to my thoughts. I know that through my thoughts, I am creating my reality. And so when I am in a thought loop that does not serve me, I embody [00:28:00] meditation. Guided meditation. I follow thought leaders that I look up to.
One is Joe Dispensa. The other one is Thara Swart. They both talk about mental health, your thoughts from a neuroscience perspective. And I think there's a part of me that always wants some type of evidence and they've been able to give me that. And so I embody meditation, reframing my thoughts, reconstructing my thought process, and through that I have been able to see life unfold in ways like I always describe as magical.
Perfectly aligned, but if it wasn't for the psychedelics, I would've never been able to get there. I would've never been able to see that my thoughts are the ones that are holding me back.
And so I embody psychedelic work through reconstructing my thoughts that don't serve me, and reframing them through guided meditations with thought leaders that I follow and I believe in. And then I also [00:29:00] do a lot of somatic work. I always check in with my nervous system. Your body does not lie to you.
80% of the communication that is given to your brain is from the body up. It's from the bottom up approach from your vagus nerve. So your body knows. And I would numb it a lot in the past. I would shut it off by distracting myself, by keeping myself so productive to where I couldn't check in.
Now I check in and it has helped me move through life with so much ease. So a lot of people do this and they experience this already, but when you walk into a room filled with strangers, your body will tell you whether you feel safe around those people or not.
And sometimes when people have this desire to connect or that void that they're trying to fill they will numb themselves through social drinking or marijuana because they don't wanna pay attention to the cues in their body that tells 'em maybe these are not your people. [00:30:00] Maybe these are not the people that you need to be around.
And so I listen to that when it comes to business decisions that I make. I listen to what my body is telling me on about who I wanna work with. I listen to it when it comes to romantic relationships or dates that I go on. If I check in with my body and it doesn't feel right, I don't even question it anymore.
there's no point. 'cause every time I've questioned it or intellectualized it in the past it always proved me wrong.
Adrian: Mm-hmm.
Zahra: So, um, Check in with your nervous system all the time. It will lead you to where you need to be. Your body knows, your soul, knows your nervous system and your body. It's like listening to your soul's voice.
Your intuition then grows as you continue to do that because you're now trusting those messages from your body instead of numbing them, shaming them, or ignoring them.
So a lot of this has to do with me reframing my limiting beliefs. But following mentors that I look up to who [00:31:00] have lifestyles or embodying lifestyles that I want to eventually get to. Surrounding myself with the right people that feel good within my nervous system and really tapping into my body and you do that with stillness and meditation.
There's even this point now, and it's really interesting that I wanna bring this up. There's this hike that I go on that's eight minutes away from my house. Before I started embodying these practices, I would make sure that I, and that there's a steep hill for this hike. I would make sure I made that in 15 minutes. Now what I do is I pause and I listen to my heart rate. And I'm like, it does not mean that I am not strong enough. It does not mean that I don't have the endurance. Who am I trying to prove myself to? I have these questions like, my body is important right now and I need to breathe. I'm gonna pause.
So that is me embodying the somatic work and being aligned with my body and my mind. [00:32:00] The restructuring of the thought of you have to get this done, otherwise you're not strong enough, you don't have enough endurance. That doesn't mean anything.
No, I do have endurance, but my body right now in this moment is saying, slow down.
And so that doesn't take away from my worth or who I am, or what I'm capable of. That's just an example of how I've been able to embody like my mind and my body to help guide me into life and bring ease into my life. And all of that came from psychedelics.
Adrian: Yeah I really resonate with that as well. that's actually one way I think about Ayahuasca is that it makes it so that we can't ignore
Zahra: Right.
Adrian: We become very sensitized and whether it's
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: food or people or the environment or wherever we are or what we're doing it just makes it so, can't ignore that.
And that's like an advantage
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: with it, I find. But
Zahra: I agree.
Adrian: comes with with Ayahuasca, you really have to work with it more regularly as opposed to, I think that's an [00:33:00] advantage of, ibogaine, or.
Zahra: Yeah.
5
Adrian: MEO depending on what you're doing it's, it's like, bam,
There.
Zahra: I didn't an answer. I didn't get to answer your question. So the frequency,
Adrian: yes,
Zahra: so I'm very intentional. With ibogaine I've done two treatments and I don't think I will do anymore. So that isn't as frequent. But with psilocybin I do that maybe once a month from a macro level. And I listen, I listen to my body.
I may not even do it in the whole month, but I, I listen to what is coming up and what's challenging me in the moment. Then I'm like, okay, should I sit with psilocybin? and that's when I do it. It's always with an intention. And then I, with the messages that I receive, I then figure out an action plan on how to embody those messages.
So frequency, I think has to do with yourself, like checking in on when you need it and also being aware of when you're overdoing it. Give yourself [00:34:00] some time to embody the practice before you go on to wanting to do another journey. Otherwise, now it's becoming like a behavioral addiction.
Adrian: What helps you to discern that?
Zahra: When I have a certain challenge and I've witnessed in my life countless times where I've overcome that.
So my challenge was being vulnerable in front of people, allowing myself to cry in front of people. And when I start to notice, oh, I'm doing that more often than not, then I'm like, okay, I am embodying that now.
And so then when another fear comes up or something else that's challenging, my life comes up. I listen to it and then I will say, okay, maybe I can do another journey. But until then, I'm just honoring what I'm embodying
And how I'm integrating it.
Adrian: Yeah. The other thing I would add too is I think that really varies quite a bit between different medicines.
So it's connected to what I was sharing before about ayahuasca. I mean, I, I find that with ayahuasca, you really have to do it more in order [00:35:00] to open up to it more and gain some of the benefits.
And also, one thing I noticed about Ayahuasca or the ayahuasca analog that I work with, which I told you about using Syrian Rue
Zahra: Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian: Instead of the vine, is that, it's actually, the more you work with it, the more sensitive you become, your tolerance goes down, not up.
Zahra: Ah,
Adrian: So Nature's telling you something there. When you do something like psilocybin or LSD and your tolerance goes up exponentially? That's nature's way of saying you're not meant to do it in an ongoing way like that.
Zahra: I love.
Adrian: I find with ayahuasca it's, definitely need, it's the same challenge, you need to discern it, but for me, I liken it from a contemplative background, a buddhist background to meditation practice.
There are benefits of deep retreat, of longer retreat. And actually if I'm willing to like commit more time and more sessions, there's just a certain depth there of insight i'm not gonna [00:36:00] see without that kind of commitment. But just like a meditation retreat. A meditation retreat can be challenging to integrate if you go too long and too deep.
It's a similar thing.
Zahra: So you're saying you would, you have to do it more frequently in order for you to really gain the benefits of.
There's no question. If you look at the way ayahuasca ceremonies are set up like pretty much any of them that you would go do in Peru or Costa Rica or wherever. It's never a one-off session, right? It's usually a minimum of three,
four, sometimes more than that. And that's because if you were to do it one a lot of even feel it.
A lot of people might not even feel it their first few times. And so that's because, and we can do neuroscientific explanations, but I think another way is just describing like it's clearing certain obstructions before you can really go deep. And like with practices, like in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, there are preliminary practices we do, could be physical yoga, it could be [00:37:00] mantra, it could be mandala offerings.
But to really go deep, we need these kind of purification practices. And I find that you need a lot of those with ayahuasca. And not only like your fourth journey, which you may feel a lot and you may have amazing visions and get great insights, but one thing that I notice is that in myself and a lot of other people when they're describing their journeys, is when they're newer to ayahuasca.
And I would say by newer, I mean it could still be like 20, 30, 40, 50 journeys. Like
What?
Adrian: a of what they're describing are insights. And it can feel like they're getting these huge downloads from the universe, I felt that way, but the more and more I work with the medicine, it's actually about just emptying out, just becoming like an empty vessel. And it's about polishing the mirror of awareness and it's, it can show you certain things depending on, on what's happening in your life, but it's not so much about the content of experience, whether it's the visions that I'm seeing or whether it's the actual insight. [00:38:00] I think that is part of the work of it.
It's that clearing, that emptying out.
Zahra: Interesting.
Adrian: you'll, I think very few people get to the point where they can recognize that because very few people work with it that much.
Also from a western perspective, Westerners are very interested in the psychotherapeutic way of relating to psychedelic integration,
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: it's all about the contents of consciousness and we need to make sense of the story and how do I use it to become more self-actualized, and I would say that's totally valuable. I'm not dismissing that,
Right.
But that's what we would call in Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism. That's the relative level, that's the sense of self.
Zahra: Uhhuh.
Adrian: there's also the ultimate level, the nature of mind. And it's like just polishing that mirror of awareness. I find that that gets very little attention in western psychedelic circles because we don't relate to things in that non-dual contemplative way. It's all about psychologically we [00:39:00] want to be involved in the content. And I also just find there are very few people who are doing it that much to notice it. So there's
Zahra: So can you give like me an example of how you've been able to notice it given all the ayahuasca journeys that you've done?
Adrian: Yeah. Totally. This happened when I started, when I went, I started working with the medicine intensively. So I'd done it a number of times, including intensively,
Including, maybe there were periods where I did eight journeys or another few months where I did 20 journeys or 25. But then there was a period a couple years ago where I was like, I really wanna apprentice this medicine.
And my friend and I did it, he's a facilitator. So we did it every other night, for a couple months and then we took time off and over the course of the next year, we would follow that kind of very intensive routine. I did it probably a hundred times in that year and then maybe another 50 times the following year.
What I noticed, even like pretty earlier on, so when I first was doing [00:40:00] lots of those sessions, there was lots of stuff coming up. Not only visions, not only intense ego death, but what my friend and I would call karmic visions.
So the ideas in the Tibetan Buddhist system, it's also in Hindu tantra, right, the idea that we have karmic impressions that are stored in our subtle body and nervous system. It could be trauma, but it could just be memories, it could be positive things, it could be desires, but these all get stored in the body mind and the nervous system.
And what happens in Ayahuasca is they get released. And what happens is ayahuasca, like it makes the appearances in the mirror very vivid. I think all psychedelics do that, but because the beta carbolines, what they're really doing is they're opening the energy channels in the subtle body to allow those karmic knots to release.
You're seeing the release of those karmic visions. And that's when people get very swept away with it. Like you hear people with ayahuasca talking about the medicine told me to do this. The medicine told me to leave [00:41:00] my partner, start a business, build a shrine.
It is the release of those karmic visions. And it can be something that's, maybe you are meant to do that, but
Zahra: Oh.
Adrian: but maybe you're not.
And it's just, it's being released. And so I experienced that in terms of very intense like, desires, patterns that I had coming up in literal like visions as
Zahra: Mm.
Adrian: And that was the case. For, let's say a two month period. then I took a pause for several weeks and my friend and I started working with it again, very intensively.
Same thing, every other night for another six weeks. Over the course of those next six weeks, I had basically no visions and neither did my friend. And it was just totally
Zahra: Blank.
Adrian: empty stillness of awareness. It wasn't about what I was seeing. It wasn't about all of kind of this stuff, karmically that was coming up before in which I kind of [00:42:00] acted out in real life and had to learn a lesson around it.
Like all of that was gone. It was just the mind was very still. And that's an example of how this medicine is a sentient intelligence. It's not predictable. So what it can do, it can amplify things to clear them, but then also what it was doing in that scenario was. It was inviting me to rest more in that dharmakaya or open, empty aspect of mind to ground me out. And that
Zahra: So I have a few, I have a few things to say about that.
So if you have these karmic visions and these desires come up, and maybe they're meant for you, maybe they're not meant for you, but wouldn't you think that some people might get discouraged when those visions don't actualize. And by clearing and having this like stillness, would that actually push away motivation to do more in life?
Adrian: The second one, that was almost like what I asked you [00:43:00] when I said wouldn't a type A person say to you, I'm afraid of slowing down because then I'll lose my ambition.
Zahra: Uhhuh.
Adrian: So I feel I can give you the same answer back, but it's the same kind of thing. I would say b ecoming more grounded and sort of investigating the nature of your own mind, whether it's through meditation or ayahuasca. And it's not that you need ayahuasca to do that, it's just an accelerator, we're polishing the mirror of awareness so that it can help us to see things more clearly.
If your path is to really be an ambitious entrepreneur and launch this business I find that ayahuasca will just make you more connected to that path.
Zahra: Okay.
Adrian: I think the reason entrepreneurs are like, oh, I'm afraid I'll lose my ambitions because people go drink ayahuasca and then they realize they're doing something they're not meant to be doing. It goes back to that thing about you can't ignore the signals.
It's not like it destroys your ambition. It's just, you're connected to your sense of intuition. So that's what I would say about that. There's only an advantage. [00:44:00] To having more insight into the nature of mind.
The one thing I will say about the risk on that with ayahuasca or soma or psychedelics generally, and it makes sense completely through a tantric, and I mean classical tantra, not neo sexuality tantra, but like Tibetan Buddhism, Hindu tantra makes sense to that tantric framework, which is tantra is an accelerated path.
So you're trying to wake up faster. That's why you're using more potent practices, and it's considered to be a more risky path because you're taking the the fast path. So I would say the same thing. That's true of traditional tantra of this tantric practice as well, which is how I think of ayahuasca or soma.
There's more potential risk, more potential reward in terms of waking up faster. In order for you to do that, you've gotta check in with yourself, how grounded you are, where you are psychologically, do you have the right guidance, all those things. But for me, it just also helps me to clear and [00:45:00] cut through a lot of things faster.
Some of these things were patterns I'd had my whole life. I just finally was able to have
Zahra: I love that you brought this up because it, it reminds me of, I've embodied that, what you're saying. When I first did my psychedelic journey with Ibogaine, I came out and I was like, I'm gonna have my own clinic. I'm gonna do this for my clients. I'm gonna do this and run it like her and this is how I'm gonna have it set up.
And then with time as I was trying, things wouldn't align. I then realized later on I was like my soul would never want that because I'm a wonderlust. I like to be free. If I had my own clinic in Mexico or wherever I could have it, I would have to be in that location all the time.
And so it did clear up like these things that I thought I wanted, I guess the karmic visions that you were describing. I allowed a time to pass and then I was actually able to see my soul and say no, that actually doesn't [00:46:00] align. So what I can do is advocate, and that keeps me unlimited and it keeps me and my soul free.
And it being able to be adventurous and go on and do things that I wanna do. But I, you're absolutely right. It didn't kill my motivation. It just gave me insight into what my soul wanted more than what, like these desires that maybe were implanted in me. Before were telling me to do, I don't know.
Adrian: I love that.
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: And it can also amplify things too from the, from our shadow and bring that out 'cause it wants to bring it out into the light.
Everything has a light and shadow side, and so I'd be curious to hear if looking back on it like, this is what it was about for you or not at all.
But a common thing with Ayahuasca is that, I mean, it's like almost a joke if you talk to people, facilitate, it's like they'll facilitate for someone on like their first or their fifth or their 10th journey. They're like, the medicine told me to be a shaman.
Zahra: Uhhuh, Uhhuh,
Adrian: And it's interesting, it's how do you discern, like what does the [00:47:00] medicine tell you versus your ego?
Zahra: ego. Yeah.
Adrian: a very simple definition of the ego is just, it's the subjective sense of self. It's not an object. It's a process that assembles and disassembles itself in real time over and over again, and through meditation, we can gain insight into that process. But I think a key thing is also if it's coming through in the realm of thought or a concept, that's by definition through your ego.
Zahra: Yep.
Adrian: And my experience and also, and the experience of my friend who facilitates, Ronan, teachings from the medicine, if it's actually from the medicine, are coming through in a non conceptual way.
It's not like telling
Zahra: How do you discern that though? How do you know it's coming from that non-conceptual way? Your experience?
Adrian: if it's like a thought, did the medicine like tell me to be a shaman?
I find it can be helpful, like it can be shifting your perspective on something like your work or relationship. And that's good to sit with and that's a great way to think about any psychedelic.
It [00:48:00] shifts our perspective. And so from that psychotherapeutic lens, I'm not saying that's not a legitimate way
Zahra: Yeah.
to make
Adrian: sense of ayahuasca, but in my experience, the as sentient intelligence is really working on a non-conceptual level, it's not like telling us messages like that.
Zahra: It's just
And that's Ronan's experience as well.
Adrian: It's connecting us really to our intuition so that we're able to navigate those things rather than just like telling us the answer.
Zahra: got it.
Adrian: a kind of a, like an earlier stage if you think about stages of religious development, it's like a more adolescent stage if you're looking to a God or the medicine to tell you the answer to something as opposed to having to discern it.
Zahra: What I pick up is that like, when it's from the thought, there's this sense of urgency, and when it's from your soul, it's just a, there's just a calmness to it. That it's like a silent voice because it's like if the, oh, this is what it's telling me to do. This is what I need to do.
I feel like there's an [00:49:00] urgency there,
Adrian: Yeah.
Zahra: Whereas if you're just embodying it and you're meant to do that, it will all flow and it will get you there with ease and calm.
Adrian: Yeah. I like that. That resonates. 'cause it's thinking about patience is a virtue and patience is the essence of dharma. As I heard one of my Dharma teachers just tell me, which I like that a lot.
And also just like urgency can be a powerful thing. It can come from appreciating the preciousness and impermanence of life, but there's a sense of urgency that motivates us to act that's also coming from the nervous system, being grounded
Zahra: Mm-hmm.
Adrian: Versus not.
Zahra: Right?
Adrian: If it's coming from that speediness, also, if it's identified again with a sense of self, for example, I'm going to be a shaman. The moment you're talking about doing something career, I, there's an identity that comes out of red. that.
And I think a lot of times we're trying to heal others. People go into healing 'cause they're trying to heal themselves. And that can be a healthy thing, to some degree, [00:50:00] as long as you're aware of the shadow around it. But there's definitely a shadow of the wounded healer.
Zahra: Mm-hmm.
Adrian: Heard you talk on some of your previous podcasts, which I appreciate your reverence
Zahra: Yeah.
for
Adrian: Iboga and talking about you really should have a deep experience before you're facilitating it.
I think that's true of any psychedelic, like after drinking the medicine as many times as I have, I still I, I'm just not drawn to being a facilitator, so it's easier to say, but
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: I still feel like I, I'm not in a position to facilitate it for other people. It's really just something
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: that's years and years and years
Zahra: Mm-hmm.
Adrian: Of uh, of training.
And so there's a lot of that, and this is an example of the karmic vision, that desire to like become the healer so fast. Like I find we we can get caught in delusion when things feel certain versus uncertain.
So there's A difference between notice the intention and be like maybe one day [00:51:00] I will want to do this work too.
And I will want to like do whatever I can. To bring healing to others in whatever capacity that helps others best. And then you set out on the long road of becoming a practitioner, which is what the indigenous people emphasize,
you know, the importance of a long training. It's true in Buddhism, it's true in a spiritual path versus the orientation that we have in the West.
And it's not judging others. I can see this in myself too, and I try to become more conscious of it with time. It's like we're too quick to put ourselves in the position of teaching others.
We wanna like learn things by teaching. And I think there
Zahra: That's so true.
Adrian: of that. I think there are different degrees of it.
Like for example, I don't want for like mindfulness based stress reduction. It should not be the same standard as like being a Dharma teacher or being an Ayahuasca facilitator. We don't want people not offering breathing practices and mindfulness practices in hospitals and [00:52:00] schools because they haven't spent years on silent retreat.
That's totally ridiculous.
Would actually like less, like that wouldn't be in spirit of the service of decreasing human suffering and things like
Zahra: right.
Adrian: It's also just a lower risk proposition, but if you are going to be in the position of being a spiritual teacher or of being in position, certainly of serving anyone a psychoactive substance, that is going to bring up a lot of shadow stuff for the person doing it and for you as the facilitator, because people are gonna project a ton of stuff onto you,
Zahra: Uhhuh. I know,
Adrian: and there's a role to become identified with there.
Zahra: right?
Adrian: all of that are examples of karmic visions. And so karmic visions, least from a Buddhist perspective, they're happening all the time.
It's just that as an accelerator, iboga, I think Iboga does the same thing from what I've heard or Ayahuasca. They're just accelerating the release of karmic visions, but that's why we need a path [00:53:00] and a view and a of practices to ground us or else I
Zahra: To ground us and help us understand our own soul and who we are, so that when there are projections being placed upon us, we can differentiate from a place where we are so self-aware to be able to say that is not mine.
Adrian: Yes.
Zahra: Not in return become reactive or project onto the person who's coming to heal from you.
That's such a good point, especially with facilitators out there who are calling themselves shamans after just a few years of practicing because they actually are causing more moral harm, more harm to the people that they're treating because they haven't done the work enough to be able to sit with themselves and be able to work through their shadows and understand their weaknesses and understand themselves with such a deep level to where now they are so embodied and so empowered in their being to where they can [00:54:00] heal someone or help facilitate a group event or facilitate with the medicine in the most safe way. I had that experience too. I've sat with facilitators that I know have not done the work I.
Adrian: Hmm. And what was that like for you?
Zahra: Well, I recognized it because of my background. I recognized that it wasn't me. And I just was like, I would never wanna do that. But I can imagine, and I'm in a healing space.
I'm a therapist. I'm constantly doing work on myself. And so I had that awareness. But I could imagine someone who's really sick and who doesn't have a lot of awareness, who's never sat with the medicine who's really just going through a lot of trauma, how that could affect them in ways that like they wouldn't be able to maybe get out of.
And it's interesting. It brings me back to you know, what I was saying to you earlier about how I had this urgency right after my ayahuasca or my ibogaine journey to become a [00:55:00] facilitator myself. And it's because I was comparing myself to the person who facilitated for me.
And that's the same person that basically said those things to me that rubbed me the wrong way. And I was like, whoa, this isn't how you talk as a facilitator to someone you're treating, so it's interesting. It's like now I have this perspective where I'm like, actually I'm not ready to be any type of facilitator. And I see it now. it's interesting. Like I looked up to that person in that moment until I realized, wait, I don't feel like they've done enough work on themselves 'cause they wouldn't make a comment like that to me.
Adrian: I don't want to ask you to share something that's too personal. I'm just the spirit of if it can be helpful to the audience. what are some of the kind of comments you feel that what do you mean by that? Was it that it was inappropriate or just, it wasn't helpful advice?
Zahra: Totally in, totally inappropriate. When I went and did my ibogaine journey, I was like, again, emotionally trying to detach from the person that I filed a divorce for. At the time I was dating someone else. She had spoken to the person [00:56:00] that I was, I'm filing a divorce from 'cause he was my, still my safety net.
And but I was in a relationship with someone else at the moment. And I remember after my journey, she was like, "who are you gonna choose you little hussy?"
And I was like whoa. Like
Adrian: And you're still in that space, like you'd just been in
Zahra: third day. Yeah.
Adrian: Yeah.
Zahra: So it's whoa, you don't even know me. Like you don't know what I've had to go through to get away from this person I was with for a while. it was five years of planning to be able to get out of that relationship because of how I was set up in it and my own fears.
But um, yeah, for someone to say, oh like, you need to be with him again. And I'm like, wait, what? You don't know my story? You can't tell me. And who are you gonna choose? And don't go with him? And then just to make that comment of you little hussy, I was like, oh my goodness.
Adrian: Yeah, I
Zahra: Who said that?
Adrian: It's the kind of thing that in everything is [00:57:00] context. In another context, like that same comment might be playful and made you laugh, but like in that context, who it was referring to,
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: the mental space you've just been in, what you were hoping from the space is totally inappropriate.
Zahra: Yeah, so it was interesting, like when I came out of my journey, I was like, I have to do this. I have to create this space for someone 'cause I was really admiring the business mind that she care. Like she was very business savvy. And so I was admiring that but not realizing that like, yes, you can be business savvy, but you need to sit with this medicine longer and do the work on yourself.
And those two, that is what I would, if I ever became a facilitator, would wanna embody. Like I can be smart in business but I have to be evolved enough and have to sit with the medicine enough to do my work because that's continuous. Before I can do this for someone because of what I just [00:58:00] explained to you.
Adrian: Yeah, no, all that makes sense. And it's also even just the way we're choosing to look at it, intention, like thinking about it as a business opportunity. And on the one hand it, it is. It is a business and you gotta make money and I appreciate people who can really design and run a well-designed business.
We're seeing this. And I think business making money, like that's part of spirituality, healthy spirituality in my view. But we're seeing these different energies come together psychedelic space now, and there's a clash of tensions between like the more like tech entrepreneurial crypto crowd that's in the psychedelics and then more spiritual yoga crowd.
I, I think there's a lot people can learn from each other,
Zahra: Yeah, absolutely.
Adrian: A lot of times people who are great spiritual teachers or people who are embodying something the way we want to embody it, like they're not necessarily the most commercially minded
Zahra: No.
Adrian: And it's great to be both, but like [00:59:00] I think that's a danger sometimes for people who are coming out with a lot of that business energy just jumping, especially in this culture, to viewing it as the business.
And it's totally normal in this culture to do that. And it's part of it being like, wait a sec, I need to check this impulse. And like, I think this is where lot of the indigenous voices, and also, I mean, I would say...
I mean, I feel living in Asia, I wouldn't even think the word indigenous, though many of those, there are indigenous peoples there, but it's also just a more popular view of being, there's a tradition of taking things slower in the yogic tradition. It's a longer path,
That
Zahra: Absolutely.
Adrian: if you want to be in this business, you need to embody it. I mean, the facilitator really needs to embody it, but I would question someone who was an owner, if they didn't have the intention, if they didn't have some embodiment, it's
Right, right. And you said a really good word.
Zahra: Yeah. There you said a really good thing about intention. So the business aspect of it for me is [01:00:00] important because my intention is to help people on a larger level. However I just see money as an energy.
And so, if I don't have those positive intentions, if I, my intentions are not to help people more and, I have intentions above just healing through the medicine. I just see as money being able to give me that power to be able to do that on a larger scale.
However, if I am just doing it for the money and that's my intention, then I don't think that I'm embodying the medicine and I, that can only take you so far.
I just think that can only take you so far. And that's exactly what I mean by what I went through. It's like I will never refer this person that I went to. I will refer her for business, but for the medicine I won't because she didn't embody it. And like I think the money will just help you get to a certain level but even with that, it's like how much materialistic things do you wanna have before you're [01:01:00] satisfied? And if you're looking for it from that level, then you're not really happy within.
For me, it's about purpose. It's about there's a certain goal that I have in my mind that I wanna accomplish, but I can do that when I have a certain amount of funds.
I look at it as that it's important, but also my mission isn't just because of the money. It's to get that money is just the catalyst to get me to my goal.
Adrian: Yeah.
Zahra: So me being business savvy or admiring someone who is I'm just looking at that as like how psychedelics are like a catalyst to the soul.
It's just the catalyst to get me to that goal.
Yeah.
And so I just respect it in that way. But I also know that there's an important part of it that we need to recognize, which is doing the work on ourselves, sitting with the medicine for a long period of time. That is far more valuable,
And then you mix it together with the business. You're unstoppable
Adrian: Yeah.
Zahra: when you have the right intentions,
Adrian: Yeah. And not [01:02:00] thinking about, yeah, not getting overly fixated as a positive or negative. Money itself, it is an energy and it has a light in the shadow.
Zahra: It just depends on what your intentions are with it. Like I have a great relationship with money, but I also, and I can say like in the past I would buy designer things and I have a closet filled with those things, but if you ask me now, Adrian, what I wear, I literally wear none of them.
Adrian: Huh.
Zahra: I'm at that place now where that stuff does not matter to me. It's about my goal, my purpose, and how I can get there and about stimulating my mind and becoming more aware and being of service to people. It is interesting. Joe Deza talks about this being of service is actually what helps you manifest more.
So while people are chasing the money and the materialistic things, they're missing out on this other piece of like being of service to people, which not only feels good on the outside, but you getting the manifested things that you desire. But it [01:03:00] fills that self energy.
Adrian: I like that. Yeah. One thing I want to weave in, 'cause I know you're interested in biohacking and longevity I'd love to hear how your interest in biohacking health longevity for you is connected to your interest in psychedelics and how you think of all of that as part of a larger ecosystem?
Zahra: Yeah, so how can I be of service and to others if I'm unhealthy? That is why I am just obsessed with biohacking. That's more of me tuning into my body from a physiological perspective.
And, it's all interconnected. if I have all these goals and these desires which are valid and some might happen, some might not, I have to be able to be healthy from within.
So I need to be more conscious of what is out there that's polluting our bodies that is keeping us in a stuck or a disease like state. I have to do that work for myself.
And through that [01:04:00] I'm also leading others who I can help. Who are sick or who aren't aware of how like your gut microbiome can cause depression and anxiety and how important it is to check in with your gut.
These are the things that I've done for myself. Because we're not just all mind and emotions and thoughts. Our body, we're in this vessel that we have to take care of.
And death is inevitable. I can't stop that. But what I can do is tend to my body and its needs in the most perfect way so that my soul can live on and fulfill the purpose that I, feel that I'm intended to live and if that's not it then that's okay.
Like whatever God wants for me. But that's why I'm so intrigued with biohacking because you have to operate from a healthy vessel and biohacking helps you get there.
Adrian: Yeah, and I find a synergistic thing for me. it's again, the value of these medicines, at least I feel this a lot with Soma and Ayahuasca, is that I'm so much more in tune with my sense of [01:05:00] intuition and what feels aligned in terms of sleep, diet, of my different habits and lifestyles.
I'm refining my perception more through meditation and dharma teachings, and through plant medicine. And then through that I'm able to refine all of that, like
Zahra: Yeah.
Adrian: my diet, all of that.
Zahra: And that's, I'm glad that you brought up sleep because part of my biohack every night is to dim the lights. I put on some candles. I tell my nervous system, you need to calm down, even though I am, most of the time at night, I'm really stimulated and I wanna learn more, and I wanna do more.
But I am like, Nope, this is what my body needs and I can function better and be sharper in the morning if I do this for myself. So that is my nightly ritual is like really exciting for me. I look forward to it every night. And there are like a ton of other things that I do as biohacks, but all in all, it's to keep my [01:06:00] mind and my body healthy.
And
Adrian: Do you wear blue light blocking glasses, including if you're out in public, if it's super bright after sunset? How hardcore are
Zahra: I, no, I've recently started to, yeah, like I went out yesterday it was like around 8:00 PM and I was like, I start to wind down around 10. I know that the streets of LA are really lit up right now. I'm gonna wear my blue light. I actually even thought about getting the red light ones.
I don't know how good it'll be easy for me to see at night when I'm outside.
Adrian: amber red?
Zahra: That one.
Adrian: I wear those. Yeah.
Zahra: Yeah. So I do that. I also right before I go to bed, I put on like this infrared light for 30 minutes, and I, calm myself with a meditation. I'm even into peptides, and that's a whole nother thing. So I, right now I take Tessa Morlin and I do CJC, 1295.
And now, I have a little bit of a knee injury, so I'm gonna do the
Adrian: [01:07:00] BPC157?
Zahra: yes, 1 5, 7. So you can inject that into wherever you're having pain and within two or three days, like it's, it heals your body. And so I was like thinking about getting,
Adrian: Yeah, it's mixed in terms of people feeling the benefits of it. I haven't felt it as a fair amount of BPC,
Yeah. but i t's certainly interesting. Nonetheless, I also do some peptides as well.
Zahra: so I I felt the benefits and I, the way I can compare is that I used to go to Orangetheory in 2018. I was 28 years old, and I stopped after a year and then picked it back up in 2022. And at that point I had already done peptides for at least two years, and my endurance had improved dramatically.
And my, the, my muscle tone, the way my body burns fat is different. I'm more energetic as well. Like I am, I think sharper. I'm not as depressed as I used to be. I'm a lot more active in my [01:08:00] body so that's what I used to compare 'cause I, it was like, I remember, and there are even charts that I went through, I was like, I remember I wasn't able to do this in the past. And now after the peptides and I'm older, I'm like performing better than I did when I was 28.
Adrian: Interesting. are there other factors, is your diet drastically improved as well?
Zahra: My diet has always actually been balanced. it has to do I think with the way I feel energetically within.
Adrian: Interesting. And you feel the peptides are really
Zahra: I do. I really do. Yeah. I do NAD blood tests too, so that I've had that done with this company called Jinfiniti.
I've been going to a functional medicine practitioner since 2018 as well and that's how I knew I had leaky gut and how important it was for me to fix that. And after actually doing a protocol for my gut, the anxiety that like, that I would wake up to every day went away.
Adrian: Oh, that's interesting.
Zahra: It took a month though. I had a protocol. But yeah, [01:09:00] it was because I had over overgrowth of like bad bacteria in my gut.
Adrian: Interesting. It doesn't surprise me.
Have you done chelation at all? Or like heavy metals testing, things like that?
Zahra: So I, my, I had a really good friend do chelation and it actually, it harmed her. So I,
Adrian: What issues does she have?
Zahra: She had mercury poisoning from all the sushi and stuff that she had ate.
So when she did the chelation it totally threw off like her gut microbiome. And I mean she had all these, she was like throwing up a lot, which is probably fine, but from what she told me, it actually had like negative side effects for her.
Yeah, so I would be very mindful and careful with like how, 'cause it, I think like it also removes like good liver enzymes as well, so you have to be able to replenish that.
Adrian: It removes the good stuff along with the bad stuff.
I'm actually doing chelation right now. That's part of why I'm in San Francisco with my regenerative medicine doctor and I did a bunch of chelation in [01:10:00] the fall because my mercury was high. I can only presume it was from fish.
And I'm just doing more of it now for optimization. But I just do it here with my doctor I trust 'cause I know he really knows
Zahra: Right. You have to share that contact with me.
Adrian: I certainly will, and I should go without say this, we're having a conversation. This isn't medical advice
Zahra: Yeah. Sure.
Adrian: But um, to me chelation has been something interesting to explore as part of, just optimization again, as I drink, plant medicine and become way more in tune to like, I. What am I putting into my body? Drinking, eating, everything. Like it's also, the reality is we're exposed to a lot of
Zahra: We are.
Adrian: different toxins in part because of what we've done to the environment
Zahra: And it's a, it's so crazy 'cause we have to be so hyper aware now. We are more sensitive and we feel more, and we're in tune, but now we have to be like so cautious of all of the toxins that exist in our foods that we [01:11:00] shouldn't have to worry about.
There's a Yuca app I use to buy things that I eat. For my water, I literally have to put it in a hydrogen bottle. And then I have pa, I have test drinking water test kits that I take with me. And I put 'em in my purse because 90% of us is water. How can we not mindful of what we're drinking?
Adrian: It's also interesting, a lot of people who are super conscious about food aren't that picky about the water they're drinking.
Zahra: Exactly. It's no.
Adrian: That's a huge part of who you are.
Zahra: Yeah. All of it is important and it might seem extreme, but it's not, and it's sad that we have to do so much just to feel safe in our bodies. Where it should just be, it should just be a part of life here. We shouldn't have to worry about our water and, the dyes in our food and the chemicals that they put to preserve the foods,
Adrian: That's right. And we should also be changing public policy in that everyone benefits and it shouldn't be for people who can just afford chelation treatment. Systemic change for sure.
Zahra: For [01:12:00] sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Adrian: Zahra, this was really fun.
Zahra: I know. Really was. Thank you so much, Adrian. You are really well spoken. You are your goals. I love the way you speak and articulate yourself. You get so deep. And I admire that within you, so yeah. It shows you've done so much on yourself.
Adrian: Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that very much. I hope we have the chance to meet meet in person again.
Zahra: Definitely.
Adrian: Another psychedelic conference or next time you're in LA...
Zahra: Perfect. Thank you so much. This was really fun.
Adrian: All right, talk soon. Bye.
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